Convenient “Truths”
September 7th, 2008This question was posed from the Washington Post:
Women are not allowed to become clergy in many conservative religious groups. Is it hypocritical to think that a woman can lead a nation and not a congregation?
Brian McLaren, one of their bloggers, responds:
“I just talked to a leading conservative religious leader about this the other day. He believes that the New Testament texts regarding women only apply to the church and not the secular world. I find that line of interpretation very convenient for conservative churches, and impossible to justify theologically. My guess is that more and more of the daughters of today’s religious conservatives will decide to a) abandon their parent’s approach to interpreting the Bible, b) decide the “secular” world is a more hospitable place and spend more time there and less in the church, or c) change churches.”
Brian D. McLaren, in regards to women’s roles in leadership, from On Faith in the Washington Post
A and C.
oh wait, does change churches mean switch churches and go somewhere else or change the church?
@Dana: I like your interpretation of C. That would be my approach.
Wait… so now we are comparing church and state?
Yes. I like the C interpretation by Dana as well… I am a woman on pastoral staff at a Vineyard Church in Texas, (TEXAS… conservative Mecca) and I am so hopeful that the church can change on this issue. Really hopeful.
@Brody: I don’t think this is an issue of keeping state out of the church. Not at all, actually. I think it’s an issue regarding women in leadership roles, where they are allowed to lead and where they are not. As one who has come from a more conservative church into one that allows and encourages women in leadership as pastors, i can say that I can’t picture myself going into another church community environment without prominent female voices in leadership. Without their voice, presence, and leadership then we miss half the image of God.
joshua, it makes me feel so uplifted and appreciated to hear you say that you can no longer see yourself at a church that doesnt believe that women can fill the pastoral role. i feel such deep gratitude and hope to hear of more men aligning with other women and men on this issue. i would have never interpreted C as being about staying and fighting for change…thankyou, dana.
Question:
Since when should what happens in the secular world drive the way we interact with God and the Christian faith?
Just wondering…
@Parker Fitzgerald: I think where we divide on this is that you separate what you call the secular world and the Christian faith, and my reality can’t separate the two. If I interact with God, I interact with the world, and if I interact with the world, I interact with God.
yep.
First off, on the issue of women bishops, my question would be how do we interpret I Timothy 3:1-7 where Paul clearly describes the qualifications of an overseer/bishop? When he says “male” do we not hold to that anymore? Are there different interpretations for that? Was that the culturally relevant thing for 2000 years ago?
Secondly, I would say that a “conservative” Christian would say, “The New Testament specifically gives qualifications for a bishop by which we should abide. The New Testament does not seem to focus on governments to my knowledge outside of Romans 13 (submission and taxes) and Christ saying, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s”. Therefore a secular office position should does not have to be held to the same standards as Christ’s church.”
I think it comes down to interpreting scripture? Any thoughts? Is my thinking out of line?
Women leading a nation did not start with Republicans or Democrats. It was started by God in the Old Testament. Here are a few example from the Bible about women leadership. Check out Judges 4, you will find that the Lord bless Deborah, a prophetess, who was leading and fighting for the nation of Israel (his chosen people). Yet Jesus did not choose any woman as his disciples and although they were integral in the building the New Testament churches women were not the top leaders. I think the church and government are two different things. The Lord set it up this way. If it was okay with God to have a female leader in the Old Testament I think it is safe say that it wouldn’t bother him today. This is not hypocrisy, it is following the example that God has given us in Scripture.